Logitech G27 support

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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby skipiduweinau » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:29 pm

Hi.

i got g27 working on X1 and T1 but it does not feel so good yet
maybe im missing some settings...
What setup i should put in the logitech profiler?

is there any news about the FFB? or H pattern shifting?

Thanks
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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby HardcoreGamer » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:32 pm

skipiduweinau wrote:Hi.

i got g27 working on X1 and T1 but it does not feel so good yet
maybe im missing some settings...
What setup i should put in the logitech profiler?

is there any news about the FFB? or H pattern shifting?

Thanks


J2k released FFB a while back.

http://www.consoletuner.com/maxaim-di-v4-10-released/
Titan One User's Manual:

http://www.consoletuner.com/kbase/
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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby skipiduweinau » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:15 am

Thanks
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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby skipiduweinau » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:26 pm

I can not choose the force feedback in direct input...
Image
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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby J2Kbr » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:34 pm

For now, the force feedback is only available for XInput devices. In next MaxAim releases we will probably extend the support for FFB to Direct Input too.
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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby isamu » Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:11 am

Hello Mr Jefferson and thank you VERY much for making this product. As someone who is a huge racing game fan, and loves using high-end industrial hardware to play my racing games with, I have been intrigued by the idea of playing my favorite PS3 console games with my PC FFB wheel for years.

My research initially led me to the device forums, and I have been posting there and with a few quieries regarding this matter.

After doing more research I've discovered the history of this device and have learned the behind the scenes details about the situation from this thread at neogaf:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=904874

Now without going into the politics of the whole situation, lets just say I'm happy to be here, and have a lot to say :)

First of all, after reading a few threads and posts, it appears you are on the cusp of getting TRUE Force Feedback working with the Titan One via a new version of the MaxAim Plugin.

Here is how I'm *HOPING* an upcoming version of the Titan One works when it's released:

Objective: Use your High End Force feedback PC *only* wheel, on the PS3.


1)Take the Titan One and plug it into your console. I'll use the PS3 as an example:

2)The PS3 will want to know what kind of controller just got plugged into it. You can then answer it by plugging an *OFFICIALLY* supported PS3 ffb wheel, in this case, let's use an old Logitech FFB wheel such as the Driving Force EX from 2007, into the Titan One, and then the PS3 will accept it and think that's what it's dealing with. The game will take note of the *EXACT* brand and model PS3 wheel you plugged into it, so essentially it thinks a Driving Force EX is connected.

3)At that time, you can proceed to use the Titan One to connect the PS3 to your PC, and use your *OTHER* force feedback PC steering wheel and a *separate* set of USB pedals, as well as a *separate* USB H-gated gear shifter. You can use MaxAim to merge all three of these devices into ONE controller that the Titan One sees and allows the PS3 to see as one "Steering wheel".

4)You can now make whatever adjustments to your PC ffb wheel, pedals and shifter, such as adjusting force feedback strength, rotation and sensitivity via Windows game profile, MAXAIM DI, or whatever other 3rd party apps. All of this, and the PS3/videogame will *STILL* continue to think there is a Driving Force EX wheel plugged into the console.


This is what I am hoping the Titan One/MaxAim DI plugin will allow us to do. The reason I am hoping we will be able to use MaxAim DI in conjunction with the Titan One, is because this way, we can keep our steering wheels, pedals and shifter, and even a button box, all plugged into our PC, and still have the TRUE force feedback functionality to go with it. I also hope that the Titan One will have no problems receiving and delivering TRUE FFB to our PCs, rather than having to have our wheels directly plugged into the Titan One.

Yes, I realize that for a lot of Titan One users, I can understand why they would find the method of simply plugging their wheels into the Titan One directly more convenient. But some of us would like to play on both PC and consoles, and would rather keep everything plugged into one machine.

Which brings me back to another question I'm sure we all want to know Mr Jefferson.....: will the console(in my case PS3) RECOGNIZE whatever *official* ffb wheel we plug into the Titan One, and continue to see that as the device we're using, while using MAX AIM DI? The reason I ask this is because there are several different types of Logitech wheels available for PS3, but not all of them are recognized or even compatible the same way by all games.

For example, Ridge Racer 7 is my all time favorite game on the PS3. However, it is incompatible with the G25/G27 wheel. The wheel it *IS* compatible with however, is the Logitech Driving Force EX, which was a wheel released ages ago and very early into the PS3's life cycle, and has long since been discontinued. It's just a crappy old plastic toy-like wheel with ffb, but it would be an essential tool for the Titan One use as a communication bridge to be able to "talk to" Ridge Racer properly with. On the contrary, even with the Titan One as a middle man, if I attempt to use something else, like a Logitech G27 wheel with Ridge Racer 7, it would be useless. But with a Driving Force EX, if I can get the game to recognize it through the Titan One, and then proceed to use a different, more hardcore, higher quality PC ffb wheel like this one:


Image

Image

....which does NOT work on consoles..... but if it works on the PS3 via Titan One/MaxAim DI....then that will be WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ditto with the PS4. If I need to buy an official FFB PS4 wheel like the Thrustmaster TX or whatever in order to be able to use my hardcore PC wheel, and can use it via MaxAim DI, then so be it.

I am willing to buy 3 official console wheels so I can use my PC only wheel on the consoles....

1)The Logitech Driving Force EX so I can play Ridge Racer 7 with TRUE supported FFB

2)The Logitech G27 for the other games that support it like Gran Tursimo 6

3)The Thrustmaster wheel for the PS4 to play Drive Club.


Keep in mind, I have NO interest in actually using any of those 3 wheels to play with, just to use them as a "tool" or communication bridge for the Titan One in order for me to use my High-end PC hardcore wheel and pedals via MAXAIM DI.


So, I **SINCERELY** hope the Titan One in conjunction with the MaxAim DI Plugin, or at least an upcoming firmware version, will allow us this option once it's released.

I've been wanting to play Ridge Racer 7 with a real High-grade industrial FFB wheel for YEARS! It would be a dream come true and will take me back to the days of when I used to play RR in the arcades many moons ago !!!!!!!!!!!! :joia: :smile0202:

Would be happy to hear your response to these queries Mr Jefferson.
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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby J2Kbr » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:48 pm

Hello... first, you don't need call me Mr.!! :) lol

You have a very solid idea how the controller/wheels should work in order to get a real FFB.

Let explain how Titan One works. On the OUTPUT USB we - today - support 4 gamepad protocols (PS3, XB360, PS4 and XB1). Note that none of this protocols are for steering wheels. In order to get a true racing FFB the first step is implement a steering wheel protocol. Here we have some problems:

1) Like you mentioned, the protocol is totally game dependent. Some games will accept the, for example, G27 protocol, others don't. It will not be practical implement several protocols on Titan One. Each protocol stack consumes a very significant amount of memory.

2) The second problem is the compatibility between consoles. Usually a steering wheel that works in one console will not work in other. For example, the ones for XB360 does not work on XBox One.

Our approach for these problem is translate the steering wheel inputs to a Gamepad "format", this is what the MaxAim does. For the force feedback, we are doing the reverse. Interpreting the rumble values sent by the console and translating it in a "wheel" format. As you can imagine, it is not perfect - but works. I'm testing with a Driving Force GT with pretty good results.
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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby isamu » Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:04 am

Support J2K wrote:Hello... first, you don't need call me Mr.!! :) lol

You have a very solid idea how the controller/wheels should work in order to get a real FFB.

Let explain how Titan One works. On the OUTPUT USB we - today - support 4 gamepad protocols (PS3, XB360, PS4 and XB1). Note that none of this protocols are for steering wheels. In order to get a true racing FFB the first step is implement a steering wheel protocol. Here we have some problems:

1) Like you mentioned, the protocol is totally game dependent. Some games will accept the, for example, G27 protocol, others don't. It will not be practical implement several protocols on Titan One. Each protocol stack consumes a very significant amount of memory.

2) The second problem is the compatibility between consoles. Usually a steering wheel that works in one console will not work in other. For example, the ones for XB360 does not work on XBox One.

Our approach for these problem is translate the steering wheel inputs to a Gamepad "format", this is what the MaxAim does. For the force feedback, we are doing the reverse. Interpreting the rumble values sent by the console and translating it in a "wheel" format. As you can imagine, it is not perfect - but works. I'm testing with a Driving Force GT with pretty good results.


Hello and much appreciate your response and explanation Jefferson.

I understand what you are saying, and can appreciate the challenge of placing all of those different protocols on one device. Given the memory requirements I assume it' not feasible at the moment.

However, you see the problem Jefferson, is that when taking a rumble signal and translating it into FFB, you will still not obtain the proper wheel effects that the game intends to deliver to the device. As long as the game thinks a gamepad is plugged in, the result will always feel, odd or "gimmicky". Real force feedback produces several different effects that work in conjunction with each other over a Direct Input protocol that is sent to the designated device. Among those effects are:

Contant
Sawtooth Up
Sawtooth Down
Sine
Ramp
Damper
Spring

These effects are what help "bring to life" if you will, the behavior of the FFB wheel. Rumble is just one signal that is either "vibration on" or "vibration off", and simply doesn't convey the sense of "torque" you normally feel from real ffb effects.

Disclaimer: Keep in mind I'm not a programmer, and have never coded anything having to do with FFB signals, but I'm going off of what I've read and have been told from a couple associates of mine. Plus I have had a keen interest in how ffb works in Windows for a long time.

Which brings me to two important questions/suggestions.....

1)Do the output protocols NEED to be placed on the Titan One itself? What about the idea of having the protocols stored on our PC, then sent directly from the PC *through* the Titan One, and then onto the console? Is that feasible?


2)*Or*....do you suppose you could possibly design a version of the Titan One, that can somehow *change* the output protocols it contains, via different firmwares? Like for example if I have a TitanOne that currently has a PS3 Dual Shock 3 protocol, but then I want to use it for Ridge Racer 7, and want Ridge Racer 7 to think the Titan One is a real Driving Force EX, wouldn't it be possible to somehow download a sort of "Driving Force EX" firmware containing that specific wheel's protocol, onto the device via PC, and proceed to plug it into the PS3 and get it working that way?

What are the limitations of "swapping out" different output protocols and simply changing and replacing them on the Titan One via firmware updates? Would that resolve the memory issue?

Of course I'm assuming we'd need to have that specific controller/wheel that we want to use in our possession, but that wouldn't be a problem.

In any case I have confidence you can cook up some sort of solution :smile0202: :joia:
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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby Extreme-Mods » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:27 pm

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Re: Logitech G27 support

Postby J2Kbr » Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:17 pm

isamu wrote:Hello and much appreciate your response and explanation Jefferson. I understand what you are saying, and can appreciate the challenge of placing all of those different protocols on one device. Given the memory requirements I assume it' not feasible at the moment.

You are welcome.

Correct. Currently we have about 20% free space to add new features, not much.

isamu wrote:However, you see the problem Jefferson, is that when taking a rumble signal and translating it into FFB, you will still not obtain the proper wheel effects that the game intends to deliver to the device. As long as the game thinks a gamepad is plugged in, the result will always feel, odd or "gimmicky". Real force feedback produces several different effects that work in conjunction with each other over a Direct Input protocol that is sent to the designated device. Among those effects are: Contant Sawtooth Up Sawtooth Down Sine Ramp Damper Spring These effects are what help "bring to life" if you will, the behavior of the FFB wheel. Rumble is just one signal that is either "vibration on" or "vibration off", and simply doesn't convey the sense of "torque" you normally feel from real ffb effects.

Yes, I completely understand that.

isamu wrote:1)Do the output protocols NEED to be placed on the Titan One itself? What about the idea of having the protocols stored on our PC, then sent directly from the PC *through* the Titan One, and then onto the console? Is that feasible?

The way we have right now all the protocols are implemented on the device. However, it is technically possible to have Titan One acting as an USB "pass-thru", and have a software on PC processing all the USB requests. Let me think about it for a while to see what we can do in this regard.

isamu wrote:2)*Or*....do you suppose you could possibly design a version of the Titan One, that can somehow *change* the output protocols it contains, via different firmwares? Like for example if I have a TitanOne that currently has a PS3 Dual Shock 3 protocol, but then I want to use it for Ridge Racer 7, and want Ridge Racer 7 to think the Titan One is a real Driving Force EX, wouldn't it be possible to somehow download a sort of "Driving Force EX" firmware containing that specific wheel's protocol, onto the device via PC, and proceed to plug it into the PS3 and get it working that way?

This is also possible. The down side is the need of maintain multiple firmware releases. I personally prefer your first idea! :)

Thanks for your suggestions. Have no doubt that I'm going to consider it. I just have couple projects to finish before. Like the authentication/headset module, the FFB for DirectInput on MaxAim and the Shadow of Mordor issue on PS4. Going forward with a real steering wheel support, I believe the best approach is to have a dedicated plugin for it.
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