PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

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PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby numberone » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:11 pm

Hi all, sorry for creating another thread. There seem to be numerous threads on the issue but a lot of them don't differentiate between Xbox One and PS4

Currently I'm trying to get my microphone to work on PS4 Pro when connecting the Xim Apex to the Titan Two
My setup is
Mouse/Keyboard/Controller > USB Hub (powered) > XIM Apex > INPUT-A Titan Two > Console

The microphone seems to be working with just the XIM Apex and with just the Titan Two but as soon as I connect the XIM Apex to the Titan Two, microphone stops working. I've tried different setting combinations, changing the polling frequency between 500 and 1000Hz to no avail. I have this working with my Xbox One X currently where everything is working if I change everything to 500Hz, but on the PS4 Pro its a no go. (edit: And yes, communication method is set to USB cable in the Playstation settings)

Does anyone have this working without having to use the method where you have to plug a second controller in INPUT-B and use the microphone through that?

Could you please post your setup and device configuration settings (protocol, input/output polling rate, other settings etc)

Many thanks!
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Re: PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby J2Kbr » Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:32 am

numberone wrote:I have this working with my Xbox One X currently where everything is working if I change everything to 500Hz, but on the PS4 Pro its a no go.

Could you please confirm if I understood correctly: If setting XIM and Titan Two to 500Hz polling rate, then the controller headset MIC work when using on Xbox One? Is this correct?
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Re: PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby numberone » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:01 pm

J2Kbr wrote:
numberone wrote:I have this working with my Xbox One X currently where everything is working if I change everything to 500Hz, but on the PS4 Pro its a no go.

Could you please confirm if I understood correctly: If setting XIM and Titan Two to 500Hz polling rate, then the controller headset MIC work when using on Xbox One? Is this correct?


Yep, everything through the chain is working on Xbox One X including the microphone
Logitech G502 Wireless is set to 500 Hz (Shouldnt have any bearing on the rest of the config, but just putting here for posterity)
XIM Apex Polling Rate 500 Hz
Titan Two Settings: Output Protocol USB Automatic, Input 500Hz, Output 500Hz
Mouse/Keyboard/Controller > USB Hub (powered) > XIM Apex > Titan Two INPUT-A > Xbox One X
Headset (LucidSound LS35X) is connected wired to the 3.5mm headphone jack on the Xbox One controller

Just cant seem to get it working on my newly purchased PS4 Pro with Dualshock 4 controller though :cry:
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Re: PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby J2Kbr » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:14 am

Thank you for confirming. This corroborate my finding while back:
Here is the USB traffic for the AUDIO (OUT - green) and MIC (IN - blue), between XIM and the Titan Two.
Image
Note that XIM is returning empty packets for the MIC endpoint. Alternating between a correct packed and an empty packet. Also note the Titan Two is polling the MIC endpoint at exactly 1ms (blue rectangles), which is correct.

My guess was, despite the Titan Two is polling the mic endpoint precisely at 1ms, XIM is not ready yet to reply, ending returning an empty packet. When set at 500Hz, under less processing demand, XIM is able to reply the mic packet in time.

If 500Hz worked on Xbox One, I wonder if setting everything to 250Hz will make the PS4 controller mic work, could you please test? Thank you.
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Re: PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby numberone » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:38 pm

Unfortunately that didnt seem to work either. Tried setting output protocol to USB PlayStation 4 and USB Automatic and that didn't make a difference either

Image

Image

Image
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Re: PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby numberone » Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:27 pm

Im curious, what are you using to gather the debug info in your screenshot? Is that part of the Gtuner IV software?
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Re: PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby J2Kbr » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:22 am

numberone wrote:Im curious, what are you using to gather the debug info in your screenshot?

This is from my USB Protocol Analyzer (Beagle 12).
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Re: PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby numberone » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:44 pm

Has any analysis been done on whether the XIM Apex is sending empty MIC packets when connected directly to the console? What about on the T2 side of things? What is the T2 receiving when just a controller with a microphone is hooked up at various input polling rates?
Im also wondering if there is some end to end controller authentication failing in some way, but that might be a bit of a stretch. Just throwing it out there as a possible issue, at least on the PS4
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Re: PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby J2Kbr » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:01 am

numberone wrote:Has any analysis been done on whether the XIM Apex is sending empty MIC packets when connected directly to the console?

I have not checked XIM alone, but is safe to assume it works as expected (no empty packets).

numberone wrote:What about on the T2 side of things? What is the T2 receiving when just a controller with a microphone is hooked up at various input polling rates?

The configurable polling rate is for the HID interfaces. The audio interface is ISOCHRONOUS (time-sensitive audio data) always runs at 1000Hz.

The audio data requires the time interval separating any two significant instants to be equal to the unit interval. With direct communication (controller -> console) the isochronous timing of audio interfaces is usually handled via hardware. However, with devices like Titan Two and XIM this process also involves software processing (e.g. packets redirection between endpoints). The difficult of comply with the timing requirements is even higher when daisy chaining devices: controller -> XIM -> Titan Two -> console.
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Re: PS4 Pro, XIM Apex to Titan Two, Microphone issues

Postby numberone » Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Sorry for not responding for a couple of days. Trying to wrap my head around this issue.

So in thinking about this, why would changing the polling rate for HID devices suddenly make the device audio data for the microphone magically work (at least on Xbox One X for me)? Is this just potentially because there is less overhead overall?

Obviously I don't have intimate knowledge of the USB protocol such as yourself, so I apologize for all the questions.

If you have some time, it would be interesting if you could test the XIM only at various polling rates and see how they affect the MIC input packets. Have you had any communication with the XIM Apex dev about this?

Thanks! :)
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